Bad gas or sticky valves or what?

[MINI_Voyager]

Hi all,

This is basically a copy of an email I'm sending to a service advisor at a MINI dealership, and wanted to see if any of you might have a thought or two on what's going on. Thanks in advance!

 

When I drove my car (MINI Cooper S, 2007) in Sports mode (as always) I noticed something strange when accelerating (that is, feeding gas). It seems to be using too much gas and thus the RPMs are jumping very high and rather suddenly--normally it's smoother, but not in this case. Also it sometimes feel like I'm not feeding it enough gas when I start off (almost stalled, very rough running). It's almost like there's some kind of sticky valves feeding gas, but I'm not sure if MINI has such valves that would get sticky?

 

This has been going on since yesterday (Thursday). The last time I drove before yesterday was last Saturday and I don't recall any such problems. One other thought I have is I wonder whether I got bad gas from the Shell station in front of the Landmark Plaza? Does this sound like bad gas? I alway use octane 93 or 91 (if 93 is not available), and always from Shell or other Top Tier stations.

[LV2CRNR]

Hi all,

This is basically a copy of an email I'm sending to a service advisor at a MINI dealership, and wanted to see if any of you might have a thought or two on what's going on. Thanks in advance!

 

When I drove my car (MINI Cooper S, 2007) in Sports mode (as always) I noticed something strange when accelerating (that is, feeding gas). It seems to be using too much gas and thus the RPMs are jumping very high and rather suddenly--normally it's smoother, but not in this case. Also it sometimes feel like I'm not feeding it enough gas when I start off (almost stalled, very rough running). It's almost like there's some kind of sticky valves feeding gas, but I'm not sure if MINI has such valves that would get sticky?

 

This has been going on since yesterday (Thursday). The last time I drove before yesterday was last Saturday and I don't recall any such problems. One other thought I have is I wonder whether I got bad gas from the Shell station in front of the Landmark Plaza? Does this sound like bad gas? I alway use octane 93 or 91 (if 93 is not available), and always from Shell or other Top Tier stations.

 

Does it drive normally without sports mode on? If it does could be a tuning issue. If not I wouldn't drive it until looked at. If you car is leaning out or running extremely rich you could do engine damage. I learnt this the hard way with one of my old cars and cracked the head between spark plugs.

[cmcveay]

Automatic transmission or Standard?

If it's a standard transmission, the racing engine sounds like a clutch that's slipping.

 

The rough/stumbling from idle has been discussed a few times and it's not all that uncommon on the 2nd Gen cars.

 

The direct injection means the fuel injected directly into the combustion chambers - unlike a more traditional method in which fuel is injected into the airstream somewhere along the intake tract. That means there's no fuel air mixture flowing through the pipes to the intake manifold and into the engine. What many of us have experienced is a build up of oil/carbon like residue on the back on the valves. The turbocharger is lubricated/cooled with engine oil and there's some "blow by" that lets some oily mist into the intake air and there's also the PCV valve that introduces some oily mist. My guess is that the heat of the combustion chamber causes some of that oily mist to bake onto the back of the intake valve. If the fuel/air mixture flowed over the back of the valves, it would help "wash" them all of the time.

 

Many of us have resorted to doing some periodic maintenance by using "Seafoam". You can search here or other sites to read more about it. One thing to keep in mind - pouring SeaFoam into the gas tank simply won't do anything to help if this is what your problem is because it'll never get to the back of the valves. There are several "How-to" guides for doing this procedure.

 

In the end though, Jason is right, if the car is running okay in "non Sport mode" and only acting up with Sport mode on, I'd suggest having it looked at. The sport mode button isn't supposed to do anything with the actual engine fuel/air/timing maps, I'm pretty sure it just changes how "lively" the accelerator responds and it also changes some of the steering characteristics.

 

If you are in NOVA, I have a gauge that will let you watch the fuel/air ration and several other parameters to see if they are acting crazy.

[MINI_Voyager]

I think cmcveay is the winner. This morning, it was far worse and I barely made it to the PMoA (only half a mile, thanks goodness!). The mechanic can't even drive it anywhere and I think they've had to push the car to the garage.

 

So my thought is the clutch, but I'm waiting to get a confirmation from the dealership. What surprises me, if this is the case, is I never rest my foot on the clutch pedal went not using it, and tried to shift smoothly, so it shouldn't be slipping this soon (~40K miles)?? On my last car (Saturn SC2), with manual, I never had trouble with clutch though-out its 110K miles, nor with my previous cars, so I'm not sure I'm messing up the clutch??

 

So it's probably not the gas, but just clutch. Is this a common problem with MINI? I don't recall hearing much about clutch issues with 'young' MINIs?

 

In any case, they'll cover it with warranty, whatever it is.

 

Thanks everyone and I'll keep you all posted.

 

P.S. I have a SmartGuage, if that's what you were talking about? I love it! :rock:

[LV2CRNR]

My clutch is going anyday now, only 30,000 miles on my car

[cmcveay]

There are random stories about the clutches in the 2nd Gens failing at reasonably low mileage but they seem to be the exception, not the norm.

 

Good luck on getting it fixed soon so you can get back to motoring.

[TGGRRR (Ali)]

The clutch on my first gen went at about 30k miles, they replaced it and so far it's been great.

 

Ali

[MINI_Voyager]

My clutch is going anyday now, only 30,000 miles on my car

 

How can you tell? I didn't really get much warning in advance.

 

Thanks!

[MINI_Voyager]

There are random stories about the clutches in the 2nd Gens failing at reasonably low mileage but they seem to be the exception, not the norm.

 

Good luck on getting it fixed soon so you can get back to motoring.

 

Thanks. I haven't heard back from my srvice advisor, buit he isn't good about emailing, unless he want me to fillnout a survey saying how great they are! :laugh:

[MINI_Voyager]

The clutch on my first gen went at about 30k miles, they replaced it and so far it's been great.

 

Ali

 

How many miles have you had on the new clutch so far? How many miles will they cover the new clutch, warranty-wise?

 

Thanks!

[TGGRRR (Ali)]

How many miles have you had on the new clutch so far? How many miles will they cover the new clutch, warranty-wise?

 

Thanks!

 

I am at 57,000 miles now and it's still good. I don't know how many miles they cover on the new clutch. Right now I'm on the Carmax warranty.

 

Ali

[MINI_Voyager]

I am at 57,000 miles now and it's still good. I don't know how many miles they cover on the new clutch. Right now I'm on the Carmax warranty.

 

Ali

 

57K mikes since they replaced the clutch? Or 40K miles since the replacement?

 

Thanks!

[TGGRRR (Ali)]

57K mikes since they replaced the clutch? Or 40K miles since the replacement?

 

Thanks!

 

The car has 57,000 miles on it, so about 27,000 since they replaced the clutch. It was replaced the first week that Passport was open, I think summer of '09

 

Ali

[MINI_Voyager]

I just called the dealership and it looks like the clutch is toasted, and not covered by warranty because it's just "wear and tear". After only 40,000 miles? Isn't that rather short? I don't do all that much stop-and-go driving (I"d guess about 25% of my miles is highway) and know how to shift smoothly (or so I think anyway). I certainly don't ride the clutch or anything like that. :banghead:

[TGGRRR (Ali)]

I've heard about this issue and you may be able to fight for it. When Tigger's clutch went they covered it and told me it was a known issue. I know mine is an '06 and maybe has a different issue, but 40k seems really soon for a clutch to go. Can you appeal or something?

 

Ali

[MINI_Voyager]

I've heard about this issue and you may be able to fight for it. When Tigger's clutch went they covered it and told me it was a known issue. I know mine is an '06 and maybe has a different issue, but 40k seems really soon for a clutch to go. Can you appeal or something?

 

Ali

 

Yeah, I was thinking of writing to the service advisor to explain that I doubt I've been abusing, since I've driven manuals for years (before I got the MINI), and the clutches has never failed (had a car for over 110K miles without clutch problems), and that about 20-25% of my miles are highway.

 

Does anyone know of a specific case or other information I can use to make my appeal to? And if not the service advisor, who should I talk to then?

 

Thanks!

[cmcveay]

Your best bet is to jump onto NAM and the other MINI forums and run a few searches. Make sure you used the advanced search tool so you can specify 2nd Gens. The SA won't care if any other generation of MINI or Mini may or may not have had a problem. I recall having seen more than just a few clutch questions on NAM.

[MINI_Voyager]

OK, so I got Dora back from the dealership today. When I went to pick her up, I ask to have a SA go with me on a test drive to make sure there wasn't anything else wrong with the clutch, etc. Unfortunately the repair wasn't covered by warranty, although the SA managed to save me roughly $260 from the original $3000 figure. It turned out the clutch was just worn out and that the pressure plate was cracked and they had to replace the clutch and the flywheel.

 

First thing I found was a very "sensitive" clutch, in that I only have to let out the clutch much less before the engine start going (meaning it got engaged very quickly). That was a surprise as I didn't recall having that much sensitivity when I brought the car ~3 years ago, but maybe I've forgotten. So it'll take a bit of adjustment not to let out so much. Has anyone had this experience when changing clutch?

 

Also the SA suggested that when I down-shift, to wait until I've let out the clutch completely before feeding gas, which didn't make a whole lot of sense, as I was trying to match revolutions while downshifting.... Does this advice make sense to anyone?

 

He also said that the engine has little torque at the low end and that I need to feed more gas when starting from low RPMs, so the clutch wouldn't get too worn out. That make some sense, but I'm not completely sure about it. Any thoughts?

 

Let's hope this clutch last just as long as the original clutch did (~40K miles)!

 

Any thoughts on best practice on how to work with the MINI's clutch, especially if it might differ from other car's clutch?

 

At least now I can go :motor: !

[TGGRRR (Ali)]

The thing i remember most when my clutch was replaced was that the new clutch felt like butter. My bad clutch was so hard to push in that if I was trying to hold it all the way in, my leg would start to quiver. The new clutch was much softer. I believe the clutch was going when I bought Tigger as it was replaced within the first 6 months that I had him. I remember I used to stall him out a lot and thought that I was just out of practice since my last car was an automatic, but I never stall it now.

 

I'm always curious about how to properly drive a clutch. I get concerned when I'm in bad stop and go traffic on my commute. There are times that traffic comes to a complete stop, so I throw it in neutral, then it starts out so slowly that I can't get the clutch fully out before I'm throwing it back into neutral again. It's concerning and I don't know how to deal with it.

 

Ali

[MINI_Voyager]

The thing i remember most when my clutch was replaced was that the new clutch felt like butter. My bad clutch was so hard to push in that if I was trying to hold it all the way in, my leg would start to quiver. The new clutch was much softer. I believe the clutch was going when I bought Tigger as it was replaced within the first 6 months that I had him. I remember I used to stall him out a lot and thought that I was just out of practice since my last car was an automatic, but I never stall it now.

 

 

Interesting. At first after I picked up the car yesterday, i was stalling because I was letting up the clutch too quickly (compared to before anyway). So I have to work on not letting up as quickly. I just wonder if it was really normal and I just missed it all that time?

 

I'm always curious about how to properly drive a clutch. I get concerned when I'm in bad stop and go traffic on my commute. There are times that traffic comes to a complete stop, so I throw it in neutral, then it starts out so slowly that I can't get the clutch fully out before I'm throwing it back into neutral again. It's concerning and I don't know how to deal with it.

 

Ali

 

Yeah, that's a toughie. I've been in some of them, although I try to avoid by commuting outside of usual rush hour. What do you all do in this kind of traffic with stick?

[cmcveay]

Stop and go traffic - if stopped for a "bit", I'll keep the clutch in and neutral. If it's just stopping and starting, I keep it in gear. At lights, neutral and clutch out, foot on brake.

[TGGRRR (Ali)]

Stop and go traffic - if stopped for a "bit", I'll keep the clutch in and neutral. If it's just stopping and starting, I keep it in gear. At lights, neutral and clutch out, foot on brake.

 

I experience where you stop for a second or two, then move a bit, then stop again for just a second. You can't leave the clutch fully engaged for that or you'll go too slow and stall. Soooo, I throw it into neutral and stop, then I engage the clutch to move, but I can't even get it fully out before it's time to stop.

[MINI_Voyager]

I experience where you stop for a second or two, then move a bit, then stop again for just a second. You can't leave the clutch fully engaged for that or you'll go too slow and stall. Soooo, I throw it into neutral and stop, then I engage the clutch to move, but I can't even get it fully out before it's time to stop.

 

That's exactly what Ali and I are asking about those "stop-and-go" traffic--I really hate to have to keep the clutch in so much, especially after this clutch replacement. I had to do a lot of that in my last car, which last over 110K miles without needing a replacement. Now that I know MINI clutches don't last as long, I'm even more leery of those kind of traffic.

 

So it sounds like it's "ok" to hold down the clutch pedal while in neutral? Won't that wear out the clutch faster? Or does it only really matter if the gear is in (1st gear or whatever)?

Edited March 12, 2011 by MINI_Voyager
Edit after rereading earlier posting by cmceay...

[cmcveay]

Good luck with that argument! Honestly, folks will chime in with a variety of reasons for either way of doing it. Back in the old days, the problem with keeping the clutch depressed was overheating the "fingers" of the clutch plate or wearing out the throwout bearing (the device that depressed the "fingers"). I don't know what the MINI uses or just how much that technology has changed but in stop and go traffic (which I, like you miss most of the time) I'll continue to keep the clutch in and the car in gear and at a light, I'll go to neutral and let the clutch out. The exception would be if I'm the first at the light though! Then, I'll keep it in gear so I'm ready to go when the light changes.

[TGGRRR (Ali)]

Good luck with that argument! Honestly, folks will chime in with a variety of reasons for either way of doing it. Back in the old days, the problem with keeping the clutch depressed was overheating the "fingers" of the clutch plate or wearing out the throwout bearing (the device that depressed the "fingers"). I don't know what the MINI uses or just how much that technology has changed but in stop and go traffic (which I, like you miss most of the time) I'll continue to keep the clutch in and the car in gear and at a light, I'll go to neutral and let the clutch out. The exception would be if I'm the first at the light though! Then, I'll keep it in gear so I'm ready to go when the light changes.

 

What you just described is pretty much how I use the clutch. Especially if I'm the first car at a light, then I want to take advantage of the spot of open road when the light turns green.